tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN August 18, 2011 3:00am-4:00am EDT
this was in the papers but it's yellow journalism and soon will be flushed from our memories. so just go with the flow on the ridiculist. that's it for 360. thanks for watching. tonight an extraordinary moment. christine o'donnell, one time tea party darling walks out of my studio rather than answer what i thought was fairly straightforward questions. i'm just asking you questions based on your own public statements and now what you've written in your own book. it's hardly rude to ask you that surely. >> well, don't you think as a host if i say this is what i want to talk about, that's what we should address? >> not really, no. you're a politician. >> yeah. okay. i'm being pulled away. you know, we turned down another interview for this. >> we'll see the whole bizarre encounter in a few minutes and plus starbucks boss howard schultz and why he's cutting off big money contributions to candidates in washington m.
>> people signing the pledge will be republican and democrat ceos who have had enough. >> this is ton tonight. >> christine o'donnell ran for the senate from delaware. a tea party darling and she dabbled in witch craft when she was in high school. she's the author of a new book with the intriguing title, "trouble making." good to see you how are you? >> good. >> i can't help but notice you did the sign of the cross when you sat down. is it because you're nervous about the interview? >> i did it off camera. i didn't realize you were watching. i do that just because ever since my very first tv interview i just pray. i ask for god's blessing on what i'm about to say. >> i was relieved. i was expecting a devil worshipping sign.
here's your book. "troublemaker." what i was struck by is what you wrote. they call us wacky. they call us wig nuts. we call us the people. i have met lots of people who are wacky and wing nuts. you can be both. >> it's an exciting time what's going on in the political establishment and the political process right now. that's a quote from my introduction which is a quote from a speech that i gave reminding the reader, reminding the audience that as the establishment pushed back they said the same thing about our founding fathers and they are extremist and unrealistic and naive about the establishment in the political process but the folks were committed to a vision. they were committed to the
greater good and they sacrificed and didn't give up and they turned these bad times in american history into major breakthroughs and the foreign press corps has called this time the second american revolution and we need to keep moving forward and remember that if we want to enjoy the same fate as the first american revolution, we have to not listen to the name calling and the harassment and malinement they might throw our way. >> you certainly have plenty of that. you were this star of the midterm elections. you were the hottest thing the tea party had produced probably ever at the time. it all went horribly wrong and you got hammered all over the place. >> yeah. >> when you look back on it, what was the catalyst for not your down fall but your hiccup? >> i like the way you say it's a hiccup. thank you for minimizing that. >> my pleasure. >> i think it's a combination of things.
you can't point to any one thing but rather a perfect storm. and it started with the fact that our party wouldn't unite. the day that i won the primary you had major national republican figures going on national television slamming me when instead what we needed to do was what they did in kentucky where mitch mcconnell ran against rand paul but when he won they said let's take this guy to the finish line. the strength is what won the victory. we had none of that in delaware. as soon as i won the primary, you had the white house, barack obama personally came to delaware to campaign against me. you had the whole democratic machine coming against me slamming me and then i had my own party. some of those ousted leaders were telling people to vote for my democratic opponent. it was a very heavy lift for a grassroots mostly volunteer
based campaign and without the strength of the united party it was difficult and of course as i admit in the book, we made certainly a lot of mistakes. some of those were self-inflicted wounds as i admit that i definitely regret. >> why don't we just jump in there and remind you. i'm sure you'll be thrilled about this. we're going to remind you of one of the self-inflicted wounds. have a little look at this. >> i dabbled in witch craft. i never joined a covent. >> you're a witch. wait a minute. >> that's exactly why. >> because i dabbled in witch craft. i hung around people who were doing these things. i'm not making this stuff up. i know what they told me they do. one of my dates -- my first date -- >> wait. i want to hear about this.
>> one of my first date with a witch was on an set annic alter. we went to a movie and had a midnight picnic on this set antic alter. >> did he pay you to rerun his show? at the time as i painstakingly detail in the book, it was a different time in my life and perhaps i was too candid for television. my goal wasn't to go on the show just for the sake of going on national television. i went on the show to try to reach a younger audience with a message when i was 16 by the way, this was 25 years ago, you know, i too was trying to find my way in the world and ultimately i did. and people have said do you regret making those comments? i go into detail about what my thinking was but the more self-inflicted wound was how we
chose to respond and the ad was a big mistake. >> that brings me neatly to -- >> don't tell me you're going to play that ad. >> i'm afraid we are. let's have a look at how you made a small problem ten times worse. >> i'm not a witch. i'm nothing you've heard. i'm you. none of us are perfect but none of us can be happy with what we see all around us. politicians who think spending, trading favors and backroom deals are the way to stay in office. i'll go to washington and do what you would do. i'm christine o'donnell, and i approve this message. i'm you. >> you say the weird thing to me watching those two clips is on the first clip you seem like a fairly naive slightly silly young woman who is having a bit of fun about witchcraft. in the second one, you look like a witch.
you look really creepy. and so ugly i even started to believe you might be a witch when i saw this creepy commercial. >> you know, as i write in the book, as soon as i saw that line, i said i don't want to do this. this is the wrong direction. what our campaign ads should be doing instead is highlighting who i am now, what my platform and position is, the reason why democrats, independents and republicans are getting behind my campaign, and we didn't go that route. we should have gone on the offensive and started to expose the many lies that my opponent was saying about his own record but instead, you know, i didn't listen to my gut. i tell that story and i relive it as embarrassing as it is to watch it, but i do so so that perhaps the reader can relate and might have confidence in their own gut because the mistake that i made was that,
you know, it was my gut and the instincts of many disenfranchised voters in delaware who got us through such a tremendous victory in the primary and then what did i do after we won the primary? i listened to the so-called experts who had been losing election after election so again i try to tell that story so that the reader might have confidence going forward propelling the second american revolution to listen to your gut and the experts aren't always experts. >> here's the thing. you and i had a little tea party in new york soon after your departure from the political stage. we had a breakfast where i told you how to make proper breakfast english tea making the tea party tea had a certain irony to it. i remember thinking at the time you were positive about this and you seemed to work out where you had gone wrong and i thought we're going to see more of that lady going forward and now we have a situation where the tea
party is becoming ever more credible, ever more popular. we have sarah palin, michele bachmann and others leading the charge here. i would have thought there was a good chance you could make a pretty big move back into the political stage, isn't it? >> i hope to stay in the political arena. maybe not necessarily as a candidate or an elected office. i wrote this book so that it can be not just a tell-all or setting the record straight although there's plenty of juicy gossip in it but i close the book with what i hope to be a practical application about how people can get involved and with what i think are policy solutions we need to engage moving forward. i have a whole chapter that i call the freedom food chain where i talk about what the proper role of government should be and i call for a radical, ideological real awakening of the principles that made our country great and it's
republicans and democrats who have had a grave departure from those principles and we need to get back on track and i'm glad that you see that the tea party is credible because i believe that the tea party is at a crossroads and the fact that the balanced budget amendment was such a huge part of the debate and we didn't just raise the debt ceiling blindly as we've done in the past is completely credited to the impact of the tea party movement so what do we have as a response instead of congratulating them for this wonderful impact and bringing common sense solutions to the -- >> the problem if i may jump in is the problem is yes, you are credited with not having the debt ceiling raised but at the same time you are credited with total paralysis in washington. i think there's an emerging credibility for the tea party but there's also an emerge ing issue about if you're going to continue as a party to be ever
more forceful but don't do anything to compromise. that's going to paralyze america. >> that's why i say that the tea party is at a crossroads. i don't think that compromises the issue. i think that we have to not not take the bait as we have joe biden calling us terrorists and extremists. again, remember they said that about the abolitiononist ists. they said our whole economic system rested on the slave trade. they were wrong headed establishment minded arguments and we have to remember that again. they tried to say the same thing about our founding father at the birth of our country and they are trying to do the same thing now because the reality is our country is going bankrupt. our country is on the brink of collapsing. our economy, our currency is being devalued. this is a very grave situation unlike any time. we need real solutions.
we need to get back in a very radical way to the principles on which our country was founded. if your family got in such a difficult economic situation such an overextension of your finances, you're not going to continue to go to the country club. you're not going to take these elaborate vacations to martha's vineyard, would you'll have drastic cuts in your budget to get back on track and that means downsizing and that's what we have to do right now because this is very serious. we might not continue in the next couple years. it's a very serious situation that we're in. >> okay. we're going to discuss this further after the break. we're also going to talk to you about sex. you'll be pleased to know. >> great. [ male announcer ] 95% of all americans
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with young people and masturbation is part of sexuality but it is important to discuss this from a moral point of view. the bible says that lust in your heart is committing adultery so you can't masturbate without lust. the reason you don't tell them masturbation is the answer to aids and all these other problems that come with sex outside of marriage is because again it's not addressing the issue. >> that was from the mtv special "sex in the '90s." i'm about to ask you a question i don't ask most of my guests. do you think masturbation is wrong? >> let's not even go there. >> why? you went there. >> again, i address it in the book. at that time in my life my goal was to reach out to young people and there was a show "sex in the '90s" on mtv that tauted the philosophy that anything goes.
there's no doubt i don't think anyone would disagree that there's a little bit of a crisis when it comes to whether it's aids or sexually transmitted disease or teenage pregnancies so my goal at the time was to reach out to young people and try to present a view of sexuality that they weren't getting and again i go into detail about where i was at that time in my life and why i chose to go on that show and do that interview. >> i get all that. your views on sex and stuff are relevant if you're going to be a politician. >> they're not. there aren't laws outlawing sex and if there are, they shoulding on the local level as i make the case for local control as opposed to federal control. >> so am i wright in assuming your views have evolved over the years? >> well, i am a practicing catholic and i support what the catholic church teaches but would i as a -- i was about to
say my age but as an older woman, go on that show again, no. i wouldn't go on that show again nor would i choose to do an interview about that subject. it was a different time in my life. i was excited and passionate about this new belief that i had. this new faith that i found. i was eager to share it with my peers. >> are you still a supporter of total abstinence even if you are on your own? >> are you the pro-masturbation talk show host? >> yes, why not. >> good for you for taking that stand. >> if the option is to be the anti, i think i would be in the pro department, yes. i'm not afraid to say so. over to you, ms. o'donnell. >> what i'm going to do and what my goal is now is to fight for the freedom of speech in america which allows to you say that. that's what's my focus right now is to fight for the constitutional principles that
made our country great because we do have a movement in washington that is completely abandoning it. >> have you committed lust in your heart and therefore adultery? >> let's not even go there. let's get the conversation back to the book. that's why i'm here. >> this to me is a natural extension to ask you a very relevant position of any politician -- >> i address it all in the book. >> what is your view of gay marriage, for example? >> i address that stuff in the book. >> you're on here to promote the damn book. you can't keep saying it's all in the book. >> i'm here to talk about the book. >> yes. i'm talking about the book. you keep saying it's all in the book. tell me what's in the book. >> why don't you ask me questions about what i say in the chapter called our follower in chief where i criticize barack obama. >> because right now i'm curious -- right now i'm curious about whether you support gay marriage.
>> you're borderline being a little bit rude. >> really? >> i obviously want to talk about the issues that i choose to talk about in the book. >> do you answer that question in the book? >> i talk about my religious beliefs, yeah. i absolutely do. >> do you talk about gay marriage in the book? >> what relevance is that right now? is there a piece of legislation? i shouldn't be voting on anything. >> it's obviously as you know because michele bachmann's views and others, it's a highly contentious political issue. i'm curious what your view is. you keep saying it's in a book. why not say it in an interview if it's in the book? >> it's not relevant. it's not a topic i choose to embrace. i'm not champoning ion it right now. i'm promoting a book i hope to be a very inspirational story to people who are part of the tea party movement so they can continue, you know, in this movement to bring america back
to the second american revolution. that's my goal. that's my focus right now. >> so would you agree with me, michele bachmann, we should maybe repeal don't ask, don't tell? >> i'm not talking policies. i'm not running for office. ask michele bachmann what she thinks and the candidates that are running for office what they think. >> why are you being so weird about this. >> i'm not being weird about this, piers. i'm not running for office. i'm not promoting a legislative agenda. i'm promoting the policies laid out in the book. that's why i agreed to come on your show. i'm not being weird. you're being a little rude. >> i am baffled as to why you think i'm being rude. i'm being charming and respectful. i'm asking questions based on your own public statements and now what you've written in your own book. it's hardly rude to ask you that surely.
>> don't you think as a host if i say this is what i want to talk about, that's what we should address? >> not really, no. you're a politician. >> okay. i'm being pulled away. we turned down another interview for this. >> where are you going? you're leaving? >> i was supposed to be speaking at the republican women's club at 6:00 and i chose to be a little late for that not to be, you know, yeah, not to endure rude talk show hosts but to talk to you about my book and to talk about the issues that i address in my book. have you read the book? >> yes, but these issues are in your book. that's my point. you do talk about them. >> okay. all right. are we off? are we done? >> he's still there. >> i'm not. i'm still here. >> he says he still wants to talk to you. >> it would appear that the interview has just been ended. >> christine o'donnell.
i want to issue a personal invitation for you to come back on my show tomorrow night to explain why you walked off and to answer some of what i thought were pretty straightforward questions based on your own politics statements public statements. i promise not to be even remotely rude. coming next, starbucks ceo howard schultz and why he wants to cut off big buck contributions to washington. [ male announcer ] this is what it's like getting an amazing discount on a hotel with travelocity's top secret hotels. [ gnome ] ahhh... [ male announcer ] the easy way to get unpublished discounts of up to 55% off top hotels. [ gnome ] your fingers are quite magical.
howard schultz is not just man who caffeinates america and the world, he wants to stop giving money to candidates. he's also the author of "onward." he joins me now. howard schultz, thank you for joining us. i want to make sure you're not going to walk out on me like my last guest. >> i'm here to stay. >> excellent. now, i want to read you a quote which you recently gave as kind of a standard bearing mantra to other ceos. you said over the last few weeks and months, our national elect official its from both parties have failed to lead. they have undermine the full faith and credit of the united states and stirred up fears about economic prospects without
doing anything to truly address those fears. you go on to ask those fellow ceos to boycott washington and cease campaign contributions. an aggressive stance from an aggressive businessman. what do you hope to achieve here? >> well, i wouldn't characterize it as aggressive when you consider the sense of urgency that i think we all need to have about the crisis of confidence that exists in our country as a crisis of leadership. let me say at the outset i love this country, i'm a registered democrat but i'm not coming at this in any way in terms of my own views or partisanship. i'm coming at this as a citizen. the ways in which our members of congress and administration are looking at these things unfortunately is through the lens of whether or not the polls will suggest this is good or bad for their own re-election. and the life blood of their re-election unfortunately is
fund-raising and money and when i did my own research and was stunned by the fact that over $4 billion was spent in the last presidential cycle and an estimated 5.5 billion in 2012. i just could no longer sit idly by and just allow the status quo to continue when i realize that the connective tissue of what's happening in america in terms of the cause and effect of not only the economics system of the u.s. but how this is affecting america's reputation, our standing in the world, i just feel very strongly that i just wanted to raise my voice in the most respectful way with civility and suggest to those people who are funding these re-elections and funding the incumbents' ability to stay there, that we send the most powerful message that they will hear that we no longer want to accept the status quo and we're
tired of what's going on in washington and america deserves better. >> warren buffett came out with advice to the president to tax the very rich like him and billionaires like yourself. they say the guys running sharp end of business in the country says enough is enough. this political infighting is causing damage and harm to business in america. >> i think that's actually an understatement. i actually spoke to warren on friday about the initiative that i was going to take as well as his own. i wanted to seek his advice and counsel. i think what you just brought up is let's put numbers on top of that. i think in my research is correct, there's about a trillion dollars sitting idly on the balance sheets of american
companies and because of the crisis of confidence and uncertainty and anxiety of american business people is to probably not invest as much as they could or should in the american economy right now because there's such uncertainty and a fracture of confidence can the consumer and america at large. and part of my proposal was not only suggesting that we hold back and suspend donations, but we do not wait for washington. as american business leaders, we can have and make a difference. i think the confidence that we could bring to the country could be contagious. what i'm asking of my peers is to invest back into the growth of their company and to the country and do everything we possibly can to hire people. i would suggest -- you know, i wouldn't in any way compare turning a company around to the crisis of confidence in america
but i think some of the tools and resources are the same. what i mean by that specific is there has to be a laser focus on things that are most important. i'm looking at the situation now and i'm saying we are in a crisis. we have to have this deep sense of personal urgency. i don't begrudge anyone from taking a vacation but we need to send a message to congress to go back to washington and please address the issues of the day and bring confidence back to the american people and the rest of the world. >> you are obviously a very successful businessman. you run one of the biggest companies in america. it's been an odd recession in a lot of ways. a lot of companies, take apple, for example, they've been exploding with profit through a period when many people in the street, ordinary young businessmen or running own businesses have been struggling so there's a real disparity here between big, successful companies like yours, like mcdonald's, apple and so on and
what is happening to the average guy on the street, isn't there? >> well, i think unfortunately the gap between the rich and poor and haves and have nots have widened and something else that unfortunately has not been spoken a great deal about and that is as a result of the deficit and the pressure on the federal government, the united states, the individual states, i believe 42 of the 50 states are facing a budget deficit and about a third of the states are facing a crisis of insolvency. but specifically what that means is that there is going to be such a dramatic cut to social services in america and the people that that is going to affect the most is the people in the safety net of social services, the people who don't have a voice, the people who are
being left behind, and again i think the responsibility of not only the government but business leaders and corporations, corporations are going to have to ask themselves a very important question and that is that we're going to have to do more to provide the kinds of services to the communities we serve and a safety net for the people that we employ because the federal government is not going to have the resources and states are not going to have resources they've had before, which i think brings into play the need for washington to get their act together because -- >> hold that thought. we're going to take a quick break. hold that thought. when we come back, i want to talk to you. when you came back as ceo of starbucks, for example, you dealt with a crisis facing your company and i want to talk about how you turned that around and how president obama's administration can do the same now. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.
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>> right now starbucks ceo howard schultz. you basically beat starbucks from scratch and turned it into this huge global company. a few years ago you stopped being ceo. you remained as chairman and came back as ceo after an eight-year gap in 2008 at a time the company was facing problems in the business model.
tell me about that period and what you did to get starbucks back on fire again? >> well, the irony is when i came back in 2008, it was terrible timing because it was during the cataclysmic financial crisis. we were trying to navigate through the storm of the economy and also some self-induced mistakes the company had made. even though i was not the ceo and i was the chairman, i stood up in front of our people and apologized that i thought we, as leaders, had let them and their families down. we created what we referred to as a transformation agenda. it was a one-page document and whether you were a part-time barista in one of our stores or the president of a division, you understood with great clarity the core purpose of the company, the humanity of the company and values and role and
responsibility of what we had to do as a company to restore confidence in the brand and the experience. >> what are the parallels between the decisions you took then to correct the difficulties at starbucks, what parallels do you see with america incorporated? >> i want to be extremely respectful of congress and the president. i think turning a company around is a very different challenge than turning the country around but perhaps there are some tools or resources that are applicable. the first thing is you have to reduce the agenda to the lowest common denominator and sequence things that are most important because you can't do everything at once. there has to be 100% transparency, truth, and authenticity among the leaders. and people within the company and we employ 200,000 people have to have faith and confidence in what the leaders are doing, why they are doing it, and there has to be a collective understanding about
what's in it for them. what i mean by that specifically is it's not enough for a group of white collar workers to achieve success and rewards. success has to be shared. i think we learned that a long time ago at starbucks when we started our company we did something very uncharacteristic way before there was health care in america in terms of the administration, starbucks was the first company in america to provide comprehensive health insurance for every single employee including people who work 20 hours a week. the challenge then and today was to preserve the core values of the company while we were restoring it back to the glory of what it once was and specifically what i mean by that is achieving the fragile balance between profitability, social conscience and belef lance. >> there are parallels there with america.
president obama's challenge is to restore america to greatness but by doing so maintaining the core values of what made america great in the first place. >> if i was sitting here and i think i have a license to say this because i grew up in the projects of brooklyn, new york, on the other side of the tracks. i understood what it meant not to have access to the american dream as a young kid. i think the most important thing that i think everyone in america must have is belief that wherever they live, wherever station they have in life, that the american dream is alive and well. i think the fracturing the trust and confidence is in the american dream. we must restore the emotional relationship that people have to the idea of america, that no matter where you come from, no matter where you live, that you
have access to the same opportunities that somebody who is born in privilege. when i read the letters i received from so many people who are hurting, if members are reading these letters and i'm sure they're getting their own, i can't understand why they don't understand the specific responsibility of their oath and that is to represent all of america and get back to solving america's problems. i don't believe this is that hard. i think we are making it that hard because we're fighting one another as opposed to trying to focus on what's most important and that is the american people. >> if you don't mind me jumping in, there's also this question on how to deal with globalization and in particular china. fascinatingly, you have set up these starbucks china club and you are learning mandarin. you, howard schultz, as i speak. when i come back after this break, i want to talk to you
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starbucks ceo howard schultz. tell me about the me about these starbucks china club. because this is an institution set up within starbucks in seattle, i think, where all the top i think 300 top executives get together, they learn mandarin and they learn about chinese culture. is that right? >> you're doing your homework. but i didn't know -- how did you find that out about the china club? >> it's written everywhere. >> okay. we have about 900 stores in greater china, about 450 in the mainland. we think there's an opportunity for thousands of stores. and i think given the opportunity and the size of what starbucks could be in china and the amount of chinese americans we have working for the company, someone came up with the idea to
really start a club in which we could understand with great sensitivity and respect the chinese culture. i think when other people have made comments which i do not agree with that china is the enemy, i don't believe that. i think the enemy is within. and specifically, let me give you an example of that. this is the first time in many, many decades, piers, where we have more jobs of people working for the government than we have manufacturing jobs in america. i believe we're down to 9 million manufacturing jobs and over 30 million people working for the government. the problem is not china. and the problem is not asia. the problem is that we've allowed, because of unintended consequences, the manufacturing jobs of america to move overseas. this is another i think example of what we have to do. and that is create an opportunity for very smart people to focus on solving the problem and creating new ways to
innovate around manufacturing. and i think provide incentives -- >> that's the key thing, howard. that seems to me to be absolutely the heart of the american problem right now. when i hear people like you and i hear steve jobs talking about apple's global expansion, you look at mcdonald's, any of these companies, i went to shanghai recently. just full of superstores from britain, tescos in the case i was worting under the time. nike 3,000 stores throughout china. it seems to me there are certain types of american business leaders who get this and who are aggressively taking their products made here or their products taken over there and made there into china are selling them to the chinese. there are lots of other businesses standing back saying, whoa, this is all too scary. they're the enemy. we can't help them. that has to be wrong. the answer has to be, america having more apples, doesn't it? more mcdonald's.
more starbucks. more things created by americans that the chinese want. >> well, we live in a global society. and that global society, i don't put a label on. i think the opportunities that the private enterprise has to extend the brand in their business to the people who are buying the product. but i think you bring up a subject that i think is important. great companies that build an enduring brand have an emotional relationship with customers that has no barrier. and that emotional relationship is on the most important characteristic which is trust. and if you bring that back to america, i think whether you are democrat or republican, i think most people would say that for whatever reason -- and there are many -- that we have fractured the trust that we used to have in government. i believe that can be restored. and once it is restored because of people doing the right thing, we get back to doing the work of
representing the people the right way. but the problem we have right now is that we have, for whatever reason, the unintended consequences of what happened in washington has fractured the opportunity for americans to trust their representatives. and if you look at the statistics, i believe it came out last week, over 80% of the people who were polled did not have trust and confidence in congress. and that's a tragedy! these are good people who have been sent to washington to do the right thing. and for whatever reason, they are doing things right now that are inconsistent with the interests of the american people. >> well said, howard schultz. it's been a pleasure talking to you. thank you very much. >> thank you, piers. coming up, a preview of my interview with high brow heart throb josh grow bin. you'll see a side of him that you may not know. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made. when i got my medicare card,
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and i intend to. tomorrow a no holds barred intervy. plus singer josh groban reveals a side you may not know. listen to that. >> piers, you have some tweets that are might i mighty epic. i feel that perhaps i might want to give some of your very dramatic, very passionate tweets the gravitas that they quite frankly deserve. this one, i wish i had a piano that would have made this easier. this one calls for an op rattic "memo to all the spotty, tax-dodging, dough-scrounging anarchists in london, please just give it a rest for today, can you? thanks [ laughter ] >> i like the thanks at the end. i feel like -- this is good. this parrot is the smartest animal i've ever seen. amazing >> yeah. i don't know. >> josh groban, singer, heart throb and a pretty funny guy.